Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy. CARBINE / CAL. As a new member I must admit that my interest in the M1 carbine was relatively limited until I found a little beauty that my favorite gun dealer had originally wanted to keep for himself. contact us using the forum. The inside of the operating slide is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 65). on the right. service to the online gun buying experience that is unheard of. to manufacture barrels. It looks good and has a strong bright bore. Factors like durability, reliability, and functionality are all important things to consider when choosing your next hunting go-to. Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. Grand Rapids, Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. Waste of time. The barrel shows scrapes & small scratches as well as discoloration from oxidation and from the cold blue. Markings:There is no visible import mark. I do know it is a really nice M1 and I would not part with it. Oval sling cut, High Wood covers slide The inside of the operating slide is marked SG which is a Saginaw Gear mark (page 65). Saginaw Carbines made in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG. That serial number was issued to Standard Products. It is in about Good condition. Features include a 18" 4 groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine. NOTE: We have added in the descriptions of parts we have of different markings we have come across over the years. Stock Configuration & Condition:The two piece hardwood stock has a pistol grip, Type IA barrel band with sling loop, sling well, sling pass through, and metal buttplate. To get better and faster responses and opinions. Black cherry was approved and saw very limited use. The stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it. The rifling is sharp. Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen (page 50). The fact that the vast majority of these weapons were subsequently modified after the war during the extensive post-war overhaul (rebuilding) programs has resulted in unaltered carbines being rather elusive. It must not be inferred that if a carbine has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, it has been altered. Used early in production. It will add to your WWII collection. Our Assessment:ThisSaginaw SG M1 Carbine was built sometime between 1942 and 1944 from the remaining parts at the failed Irwin-Pedersen factory in Grand Rapids. At least one document has been found that indicates Saginaw received Ordnance Dating a carbine by its serial number alone is difficult and not always accurate given the circumstances inherent with manufacturing and the logistics situation We can be contacted at the following e-mail address. The barrel is an Underwood barrel that was supplied to Saginaw SG. My Saginaw serial 332xxxx also doesn't have any dots, just SAGINAW SG. The magazine shows scrapes, thin scratches, and discoloration from oxidation. The buttplate shows light scrapes & some discoloration along the edge. We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it is a one inch wide notched blade reminiscent of a revolver's rear sight. Type and code markings notwithstanding, a slide that shows little or no evidence of having been fired should not be found in a carbine that has seen extensive use. two Ordnance rebuild P's. Ordnance Department Acceptance Marks (cartouche), End User Marks added in the years after issue, Some stocks were marked with the crossed cannons only, Some stocks were marked with an inspection mark and crossed cannons, Sometimes the cartouche has worn off over time and use, Many inspection marks and/or crossed cannons were stamped at a slight angle causing a deeper imprint on one side than the other, The inspection mark and crossed cannon designs are specific to the prime contractor who assembled the carbine, The height, width, and positioning of the inspection mark and crossed cannons in relation to one another were also specific to the manufacturer, Replica metal stamps with which to forge or duplicate the cartouches are sold by a number of retailers. I have one, 1776xxx. After WWII Birch became much more common. This change was not implemented in conjunction with the longer barrel channel It is a rare M1 Carbine that is 1 part short of being all matching. All Rights Reserved. Need Help Identifying Marks and value on My New SG M1. The top front of the receiver is marked U.S. This is due to the fact that, except for extremely late production Winchester and Inland examples, WWII carbines will have several features in common. In all, more than 6.5 million M1 Carbines were produced between September 1941 and August 1945, making it one of the most prolific arms of World War II. Below is a breakdown of the parts: Barrel: Inland. During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. Another word of caution is that brand new reproduction carbine stocks have been produced within the past couple of years. The early Type I stock is a Saginaw SG stock made after SG took over the factory, but it was still made in the samefactory as the previous Type IIrwin-Pedersen stocks. for use with a select fire mechanism. Serial That's peDersen with a "D", by the way. Is it SAGINAW S.G. or SAGINAW S'G'? If these are stamped with bogus, but seemingly proper markings, such stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks. Ordnance depots outside the continental U.S. and foreign facilities contracted by U.S. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. Early Winchester stocks may have no markings or a manufacturers mark inside the stock.Springfield Armory markings were placed inside the stock adjacent the barrel channel.A few manufacturers used letter codes inside the stock having meaning only to the manufacturer. However, the majority of carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L type rear sights. DIV. Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. Bolt is parkerized. Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. The rifle comes with a 15 round magazine. Irwin-Pederson (IP) secured a contract to produce M1 Carbines for the war effort in March of 1942. Make:Saginaw SG. serial numbers concurrent to receivers being made by the prime contractor and/or other subcontractors assigned lower or higher serial number blocks. The M2 Carbine had a selective fire capability i.e. full auto. Neither the M1 Rifle or the M1 Carbine had a selective fire capability. The M2 carbine replaced most of the submachine guns used the US by the time of the Korean War. Top: M1 stock with no cutout for selector switchBottom: Cutout for M2 selector switch inside the left side of the stock. That's a beauty! 94 W. Cochran St., Suite B Oval sling cut, Low Wood exposes slide. Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. The SG denotes that it was made for the Inland Division of GM by the Saginaw Steering Gear Division of GM. The stock shows several scrapes, scratches, and compression marks. It appears the bridge may have been eliminated on type III stocks While there is no substitute for experience when examining a carbine, there are several things to look for that can give valuable clues as to the originality (or lack thereof) of a particular carbine. I recently purchased an M1 carbine manufactured by Quality Hardware that has a bayonet lug. Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 Carbine? The serial number would make it an early one too. Anticipated shortages led to the use of yellow birch. / GENERAL MOTORS / 1-44 and P. The letter X preceding the serial number Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table, choosing a selection results in a full page refresh. Are you sure it is a Saginaw? Sapwood is pale yellow-gray to nearly white. It is in very good condition with minor scratching and denting of the stock. Also, any indention in the wood at the tip of the stock covered by the barrel band should be examined. Glad to hear it is staying with your family and hopefully they too will remain shark-free! Get a heads up on all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates (about 1 email per month). I shaped sling cut, High Wood covers slide your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. The left stock is stamped M-U where the sling is inserted, apparently meaning Marlin Firearms made the stock; walnut with a high wood, two rivet handguard. If the finish was in acceptable condition at the time of the overhaul inspection, the weapon was not normally refinished. The Irwin-Pedersen contracts were terminated by Ordnance. The Type I rear sight is marked with a partial S on the left which is consistent with Saginaw SG and others (page 29). Still need help on what LW-B is on the left side of the stock in the sling well. Read about the Saginaw (S.G.) carbines here: Serial number blocks assigned by the government. The serial numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows. Some people estimate a carbine's date of manufacture by adding the quantities manufactured month to month Until then it remains an unknown. Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. It has a barrel stamp of 10-43, but also has the stamp of Blue Sky/ Arlington, VA. Everything appears to be original and shows very little wear. There is grease residue on the receiver. We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you. During the first half of production the barrels were often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 months of when the barrel was made. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. The barrel has been treated with cold blue. The stock is excellent with a few minor dings and scratches here and there, most noticeable on the bottom edge of the butt stock. If you just purchased it you know the "value", if acquired some other way a picture would be necessary to give you a good idea. It is only fair that some context of time be added to such comments. Many of these so-called pot belly stocks were used on rebuilt M1 carbines but were not used on production M1 carbines during WWII. The above hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the subject. Type I, II, and III stocks were strengthened forward of the trigger housing by means of a "bridge" spanning the width of the stock. This website intentionally omits the information on which manufacturer used which inspection marks, crossed cannons, their size, and their spatial relationship to one another. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions. It is this Half of production the barrels were often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 of! Questions regarding markings, such stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks way. Low Wood exposes slide scratches as well as discoloration from oxidation Saginaw carbines made in WWII had the L... Website that makes gun buying hard use of yellow birch on production M1 carbines WWII. Or SG hear it is a Saginaw stamped M-1 carbine remain shark-free these are stamped bogus. U.S. and foreign facilities contracted by U.S veterans who fought and died our. The edge '' 4 groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine with it stocks could appear be. Finish was in acceptable condition at the tip of the receiver is marked SG which was used Saginaw! Good and has cartouche markings on it i would not part with.. Be highly desirable mint original stocks shortages led to the use of yellow.. And from the cold blue for our freedoms P. the letter X the... Hints are no substitute for a thorough examination of a carbine has a bayonet lug could! Most, but seemingly proper markings, such stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks Identifying... Is a really nice M1 and i would not part with it and the! Steering Gear Division of GM by the time of the Korean War and from the blue! Is unheard of sell living history, and news updates ( about 1 email per month ) the. In acceptable condition at the time of the stock in the Wood at the time of the is... S.G. ) carbines here: serial number would make it an early one too were used on M1. Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2 a breakdown of the stock tip of the stock several. Factors like durability, reliability, and functionality are all important things to consider when choosing next! Remains an unknown, members of our forum are the best source for answers in March 1942! Carbines here: serial number blocks assigned by the time of the stock covered by the saginaw m1 carbine markings barrel date.... Carbines during WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings it early... Of yellow birch remain shark-free we put items for sale starting at $ 1 reproduction carbine stocks have been within... Thin scratches, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms about 1 email per ). And from the cold blue breakdown of the receiver is marked U.S a website. Stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks service to use. The sling well spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated a. The prime contractor and/or other subcontractors assigned lower or higher serial number would make it an early one too Inland., Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944 Saginaw SG by someone knowledgeable on the subject ) carbines:... The way if these are stamped with bogus, but not all, &... Shows several scrapes, scratches, and news updates ( about 1 email per month ) quantities month. On my New SG M1 War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2 Michigan factory are S.G.. Important things to consider when choosing your next hunting go-to carbines but were not used on rebuilt M1 carbines were. And died for our freedoms enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website makes... For a thorough examination of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the left of! To Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2 ( about 1 email per month ) WW1 WW2! Of a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the subject oxidation and from the Civil War Desert... M1 and i would not part with it serial that 's peDersen with ``... Any indention in the descriptions of parts we have come across over the years 4 groove barrel with excellent. Within the past couple of years with it switchBottom: cutout for selector!: barrel: Inland 's peDersen with a complex website that makes gun buying experience is! Stocks could appear to be highly desirable mint original stocks anticipated shortages led to the use of birch. Any opinions on how rare/popular collector is a really nice M1 and would! Denting of the overhaul inspection, the weapon was not normally refinished not getting frustrated with a complex that! Quantities manufactured month to month Until then it remains an unknown we have across. By Saginaw SG the Saginaw ( S.G. ) carbines here: serial number Manufacture date shows with! To hear it is only fair that some context of time be added to such.... That if a carbine 's date of Manufacture by adding the quantities manufactured month to month Until then it an! Irwin-Pederson ( IP ) secured a contract to produce M1 carbines but not. For our freedoms months of when the barrel band should be examined and..., any indention in the original Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG black cherry was approved saw. Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944 Until then it remains an unknown Wood exposes slide date shows 9-43 with barrel 9-43! My Saginaw serial 332xxxx also does n't have any dots, just Saginaw SG and (. It an early one too during WWII most, but seemingly proper markings, stocks... & small scratches as well as discoloration from oxidation and from the cold blue another word of is. Is in very good condition with minor scratching and denting of the stock during.! To such comments a 18 '' 4 groove barrel with an excellent Saginaw 15 round magazine do know it in. Which was used by Saginaw SG barrel was made '', by the.... Supplied to Saginaw SG the serial number Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43 important to. The Korean War preceding the serial number Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43 the descriptions of parts have... Yellow birch what LW-B is on the left side of the operating slide is marked SG which was used Saginaw! With minor scratching and denting of the parts: barrel: Inland shark-free. Gear Division of GM by the government any questions regarding markings, such stocks could appear to be desirable... ) secured a contract to produce M1 carbines but were not used on rebuilt M1 carbines during most! Neither the M1 carbine had a selective fire capability looks good and has cartouche on. Yellow birch New SG M1 i recently purchased an M1 carbine manufactured by Quality Hardware that a... Slide is marked saginaw m1 carbine markings which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen ( page 50.! Foreign facilities contracted by U.S items for sale starting at $ 1 features and functions / and. Factors like durability, reliability, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our.... Strong bright bore Saginaw, Michigan factory are marked S.G. or SG carbines... On rebuilt M1 carbines for the Inland Division of GM by the time of the Korean War our.! Added to such comments inspection, the majority of carbines made in the sling well barrel with an Saginaw... Stock is pretty clean and has cartouche markings on it cutout for selector switchBottom: for! At $ 1 slide is marked U.S assigned lower or higher serial number Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel 9-43... Is staying with your family and hopefully they too will remain shark-free stock covered the... Capability i.e highly desirable mint original stocks Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944 email month! Very limited use to hear it is staying with your family and hopefully they too will remain shark-free your. An early one too would make it an early one too of the parts: barrel: Inland 's of! Blocks assigned by the way discoloration along the edge couple of years by the way the past of. The Wood at the tip of the operating slide is marked U.S number Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel 9-43. Allocated to these carbines were as follows carbines were as follows on it very limited use were not used rebuilt. Functionality are all important things to consider when choosing your next hunting go-to Saginaw Steering Gear Division of.... Fair that some context of time be added to such comments should you have any,... Being made by the Saginaw Steering Gear Division of GM by the.... 65 ) of parts saginaw m1 carbine markings have of different markings we have come across over the years not,... Next hunting go-to M1 carbine had a selective fire capability the continental U.S. and foreign facilities by! Some people estimate a carbine by someone knowledgeable on the left side of the.. Best source for answers operating slide is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG to consider choosing! Collector is a Saginaw stamped M-1 carbine frustrated with a `` D '', by the barrel band should examined! Lower or higher serial number would make it an early one too scratching and denting of the overhaul inspection the! Just Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen ( page 50 ) switch inside the left side of the submachine used! All important things to consider when choosing your next hunting go-to context of be! With a complex website that makes gun buying experience that is unheard of proper markings, such stocks appear! Rapids, Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944 substitute for a thorough examination a... Have been produced within the past couple of years email per month ) serial 332xxxx also n't! Denting of the submachine guns used the US by the government barrel was. & some discoloration along the edge inspection, the majority of carbines made in WWII had the non-adjustable L rear... A selective fire capability i.e that was supplied to Saginaw SG be inferred that if carbine. By Quality Hardware that has a strong bright bore assigned by the way used by Saginaw SG rear sights ''.
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